Can we really roast like the pros????

[SusanJoM]

Good points about professionalism, Bjorn, and probably what ultimately separates a home roaster like me from the 'big kids'.  I have no interest in trying to repeat a profile so that I can sell it.  I just want good coffee.  As a result, as a roaster who only wants the best for myself, it seems that it all comes down to finding some basic methodologies and then picking the best beans I can find.

For me the bean rules.   If something in a roast doesn't seem quite right I will tweak the next roast, but it's unlikely that I'm ever going to have more than 4-5 pounds of any one bean, so getting it right only has a few chances.

So, I'm thinking that the HUKY is capable of bringing out the best in a good bean and what could be more professional than that?  As to being a production roaster?  That would take a whole lot more than I've got to give, but that's more than fine with me.

[Brent]

I pick up my green from a local shop that does good roasts and has pretty darn good quality beans imo. (though they do focus a bit too much on Costa Rica for my tastes) Like any good roastery, they cup their beans through quite a few different roast profiles before they center on one to put out to the public.
So I usually just rely on their cupping and am lucky in that most times, when I pick up beans, I can ask the head roaster about the bean. Moisture, density and what profile they used.  Of course I can't use the exact profile as it would probably taste different on the Huky anyway. (Her Probat does have a perforated drum though)
So I ask for general notes and milestones that I can approximate.  For eg, she might say,  I charged at this temp, used high heat, for a 5 min drying time, then stretched the Maillard out to 6:25 min and kept the time from first crack on to 18% etc. That gives me a general idea to go for. If I need more info I ask and she doesn't mind the questions she says. I sure appreciate the suggestions. So if I don't want to, I don't have to try all kinds of different profiles. It's just getting good enough with the Huky to approximate what she's telling me.

I guess I'll know in time if my roasts are as good. I recently roasted a lower priced, generic panama practice bean (from a different shop than mentioned above) that surprised me, as it was perhaps my 5th roast. Also, considering the price, I guess I didn't expect the flavor attributes. Turned out with a nice bright, lime flavored top end, with chocolatey lower notes and a milky sort of body.  The drying time was a bit short, might have needed a little more development time, but it tasted fairly good. Somehow got the DET and BET switched around though

[Brent]

I'm wondering if it would have been better if I would have upped the drop temp another 10 F or so (keeping in mind it's only a 330gr charge) then I could have coasted heat on say 2Kpa for 30 to 45 secs, before turning it up.  Still experimenting, Sure open to suggestions though.

[hankua]

I'm wondering if it would have been better if I would have upped the drop temp another 10 F or so (keeping in mind it's only a 330gr charge) then I could have coasted heat on say 2Kpa for 30 to 45 secs, before turning it up.  Still experimenting, Sure open to suggestions though.

That's a bit confusing, at least to me. Do you mean up the charge temp or up the drop temp? By extending the ramp shortening the RD phase you've "killed two birds with one stone" A good thing

I also think your confusing the development phase with the drying phase (if I'm understanding). The development phase happens after the completion of drying, so actually it doesn't really matter if it's short or long. The longer drying with high heat is a way to dry out the beans completely, not any kind of rule.

We can break up the roast profile simply into three chunks; charge to EOD, ramp to FC (also malliard reaction), RD roast development FC to drop.

Those three pieces need to fit together like a puzzle; and Huky users have mixed and matched with success. Throwing a DTR requirement at the very end  seems counterproductive.

[SusanJoM]

I also think your confusing the development phase with the drying phase (if I'm understanding). The development phase happens after the completion of drying, so actually it doesn't really matter if it's short or long. The longer drying with high heat is a way to dry out the beans completely, not any kind of rule.

We can break up the roast profile simply into three chunks; charge to EOD, ramp to FC (also malliard reaction), RD roast development FC to drop.

Those three pieces need to fit together like a puzzle; and Huky users have mixed and matched with success. Throwing a DTR requirement at the very end  seems counterproductive.

Here's how they are labelled in Artisan
      Drying
      Maillard
      Finishing

[Brent]

 I understand the difference between the drying phase, maillard and development phase, but rereading that, I wasn't very clear. Sorry about that.  Yes, I meant perhaps I could have upped the charge temp a bit, then kept my heat at about 2Kpa for 45 secs or so, before turning it up to approximate a soak of sorts.

DTR? Drying time requirement?  As far as DTR being counterproductive, are you saying that trying to keep drying around a certain amount of time isn't really that important, or just not to worry about those things at this point?

I did come to a conclusion after last nights roasting session. I've been leaving the perforated drum holes covered through out the roast because I didn't want to add another variable. Then it occurred to me, that it's a perforated drum, so it's it's meant to be used that way. At least for some of the roast. Now I'm thinking I should have it open at least during drying, then shut it either early in the maillard phase, or shortly before first crack. Maybe I'll just leave it open throughout the roast. Another thing to try! 

[SusanJoM]

So, back to topic....ahem.

Reading all of the reponses to my original question, it seems my idea of "roasting like the pros" has had to take a bit of re-thinking.  I kinda forgot that "pros" might mean people who can crank out the same flavor over and over and over.  That wasn't really what I meant by "pro", which was more like who can elicit the best from the bean, which of course there is not way to really test....

But it's an interesting conversation in any case.

[hankua]

DTR development time ratio (if I got this right) a Scott Rao metric for how long the RD phase runs in most cases (on big drum roasters) as a percentage of the total roast time.

Metrics are useful, and if it turns out the killer roasts have a xyz% DTR so be it.

Obviously if one goes from a light Nortic roast to a Vienna roast the DTR is going to vary. I think what Scott Rao is implying "what most US artisan roasters are doing" fits the DTR model. It's also a cure for underdevelopment.

[hankua]

To Susan's question "can we roast like the pros"

For a lot of home roasters, the Huky is an upgrade from a Behmor, Hottop, Gene, grill roaster, small fluid bed, etc.

These machines can roast great coffee and fit the needs of many out there, but really not at the next level where one has total control of the process.

So the questions becomes:

 1. Can I get to the top level of what's possible roasting xyz bean. The upper 90% or 95% compared to a really accomplished roast master?

2. Can I squeeze out the last 10% of perfection with a sideways upgrade to a truly professional level 500g gas Roaster?

The answers so far are interesting and informative. 

[SusanJoM]

Okay.  I'm thinking that we actually have MORE control and therefor MORE possibility for better roasts because the the nimble nature of our machines.

[easygene]

Susan said:

Okay.  I'm thinking that we actually have MORE control and therefor MORE possibility for better roasts because the the nimble nature of our machines.

That is exactly what I have been thinking.  For example a nice blend you are roasting for espresso.  After first crack you want to be sure you are properly slowed so it don't rush into second too soon.   It is important at this point, at least to me,to stretch out the roast.  The Huky is "nimble" enough to accomplish this in a completely satisfying way.

Today stopping by several professional roasters in the Carolinas sampling and discussing roasts.  I skip anyplace that does not roast their own.  And the beat goes on.   

[Turboner]

Just wanted to share a small vote of confidence for us Huky users. Just a brief background, LA Coffee Club is very involved in the local coffee scene in LA, especially in specialty coffee.