Phidget vs Center 304

[SusanJoM]

Those of you who purchased the Center 304 instead of a Phidget, can you weigh in on why?  It's more expensive and it's got some issues with reading and recording MET, so I'm wondering what it's got that made it a better choice?

If it doesn't trump the Phidget, maybe we should be suggesting that prospective buyers chose the Phidget over the Center?

[edtbjon]

I recon the MET issue for the Center 304 meter is due to Artisan, not the meter as such. (It's possible that the serial to usb interface may be insufficient to convey 3 (or 4) different values, but that seems funny to me.)
I got the Center 301 with two probes, which worked as it should. But I got the Phidget 1048, which is much easier to work with. No batteries needed and "somewhat" smaller. Since then the Center meter has gone back to its case. I'll keep the Center as a high tech temp meter for other purposes.

[Slayton]

When I first read this thread, and even before having learned about the phidget after purchasing my Huky and center 304, I was kicking myself a bit for having not researched more and not getting this sexy, slim little gadget that takes up so much less space and just seems more eloquent a solution to gauging temperature via a computer and Artisan or whatever profile program you have running.  But then I had an early morning roasting session in which the Coffee Gods were not smiling upon me, though I have no doubt they were laughing profusely.

For several days I had been gearing up for my first Farmer's Market, roasting on my Huky for anywhere from 4 to 6 hours a day either before or after my 50+ hour a week "real" job.  On this particular day I awoke at 5am in order to get a few hours of roasting in before going to work.  I got the machine up and going in order to preheat it and then moved my laptop to my roasting station.  Upon plugging it in there was a great spark accompanied by a not so great electrical frying sound and when I look down I see that my computer power cable is fried.  Dead.  Burned and disconnected, severed beyond immediate (or not so immediate) repair.  Oh, did I mention that my laptop battery doesn't work so I rely on the power cable? No?  Well, yeah, that's true.

I sit there for a moment thinking just how screwed I am.  I rely on Artisan and seeing the temps and the RoR for visually seeing where I'm at during a roast.  But then I realize that I'm not screwed.  I have the Center 304 and it states the temperatures I need, mostly BT and ET.  I've roasted enough with this particular bean that I know what I want my profile to be based on those temperatures.  I can do this manually!!  I chart out my first profile and ready myself to log TP, DE, FCs, FCe, SCs, Drop. . . .all with temp and time (I do have a stop watch).  It goes great!! As planned.  I'm feeling smug and secure and special.  It's a bit more work, for sure, but it can be done because I have this little device that will display temperature and I have a watch.

Feeling so very smug, secure and special I start my second batch. All is going well and good until about half way in.  The Center 304 runs on either a 9v battery or a DC 9v power cord.  I've been using the battery.  It's at this time that my battery died and the Coffee Gods really started laughing.  It's a bit after 6am, I didn't have a back up battery and there isn't anyone in town open to buy one until 8am.  I finish the roast based on sight, smell, and sound of FC and then 2C and it turned out pretty good.  I went and bought a battery and finished my manual roast session and I have to say it was a great learning experience that I hope to never have to go through again or get to the point of using the trier and KNOWING those sights and smell well enough to not depend on digital read outs. That is a long, long, long way to come I'm not ashamed to admit.

Bringing it all back to the original post, this is about the only reason why a Center 304 or comparable device that actually reads temperatures and displays them on something other than a computer might be valuable. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the computer fails for whatever reason be it software or hardware, the Phidget does not read or display temperatures and thus you would not be able to manually profile.  If so this is about the only reason I can think of to not go with the Phidget. But it might be a big one given the circumstances.

Thanks for reading. And very happy roasting! So glad this forum exists and happy to see all the new people joining and/or interested this great little machine.

[SusanJoM]

Oooof and ouch.
Good point in favor of the Center unit.
And/but/still, would something like this (which I happen to have for modding projects I've done in the past on espresso machines) do for reading the temps in a pinch:

[HK Reefer]

When I first read this thread, and even before having learned about the phidget after purchasing my Huky and center 304, I was kicking myself a bit for having not researched more and not getting this sexy, slim little gadget that takes up so much less space and just seems more eloquent a solution to gauging temperature via a computer and Artisan or whatever profile program you have running.  But then I had an early morning roasting session in which the Coffee Gods were not smiling upon me, though I have no doubt they were laughing profusely.

I totally agreed with your view. BTW, do you know Artisan fixed the communication problem between Center 304 and its software? Thanks.

For several days I had been gearing up for my first Farmer's Market, roasting on my Huky for anywhere from 4 to 6 hours a day either before or after my 50+ hour a week "real" job.  On this particular day I awoke at 5am in order to get a few hours of roasting in before going to work.  I got the machine up and going in order to preheat it and then moved my laptop to my roasting station.  Upon plugging it in there was a great spark accompanied by a not so great electrical frying sound and when I look down I see that my computer power cable is fried.  Dead.  Burned and disconnected, severed beyond immediate (or not so immediate) repair.  Oh, did I mention that my laptop battery doesn't work so I rely on the power cable? No?  Well, yeah, that's true.

I sit there for a moment thinking just how screwed I am.  I rely on Artisan and seeing the temps and the RoR for visually seeing where I'm at during a roast.  But then I realize that I'm not screwed.  I have the Center 304 and it states the temperatures I need, mostly BT and ET.  I've roasted enough with this particular bean that I know what I want my profile to be based on those temperatures.  I can do this manually!!  I chart out my first profile and ready myself to log TP, DE, FCs, FCe, SCs, Drop. . . .all with temp and time (I do have a stop watch).  It goes great!! As planned.  I'm feeling smug and secure and special.  It's a bit more work, for sure, but it can be done because I have this little device that will display temperature and I have a watch.

Feeling so very smug, secure and special I start my second batch. All is going well and good until about half way in.  The Center 304 runs on either a 9v battery or a DC 9v power cord.  I've been using the battery.  It's at this time that my battery died and the Coffee Gods really started laughing.  It's a bit after 6am, I didn't have a back up battery and there isn't anyone in town open to buy one until 8am.  I finish the roast based on sight, smell, and sound of FC and then 2C and it turned out pretty good.  I went and bought a battery and finished my manual roast session and I have to say it was a great learning experience that I hope to never have to go through again or get to the point of using the trier and KNOWING those sights and smell well enough to not depend on digital read outs. That is a long, long, long way to come I'm not ashamed to admit.

Bringing it all back to the original post, this is about the only reason why a Center 304 or comparable device that actually reads temperatures and displays them on something other than a computer might be valuable. Correct me if I'm wrong but if the computer fails for whatever reason be it software or hardware, the Phidget does not read or display temperatures and thus you would not be able to manually profile.  If so this is about the only reason I can think of to not go with the Phidget. But it might be a big one given the circumstances.

Thanks for reading. And very happy roasting! So glad this forum exists and happy to see all the new people joining and/or interested this great little machine.

[steveande]

Bringing back this old thread for my first post!  I'm preparing for an order and have a question about using a Phidget vs. a Center unit.

From the reading I've done, it appears the Phidget is more often used than the Center 301/304 solution. Can anyone comment on this? The above description of computer failure makes great sense to me... why wouldn't you want the readout of a Center unit?  It seems to be a more flexible solution.  Is there any difference in function between the Center and the Phidget, other than the digital readout?  Is it simply a matter of aesthetics?

Thanks in advance!

[Wayneg1]

It's a matter of preference.  I chose the Phidget because I didn't want another piece of equipment to deal with. It has worked fine for me and I've had no computer failures to date.  Once setup it's pretty much forgotten about.  I'm sure the Center is a fine piece of equipment as well and someone will weigh in on it.  Best of luck with your final decision.  I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

[edtbjon]

I got both... Started with a Center 301 (top model two years ago...), but got a bit annoyed with a "BT or ET" issue. I.e. when warming up the roaster, these two readings were in parallell (in Artisan), but when I started roasting one of them dived much more than the other (which was of course the BT). It was a bit tricky to know which of the input 1 and 2 would eventually turn out to be BT and ET respectively. It was of course clear when starting up the second roast of the session, but the problem reappeared the next session. That issue was solved with a Phidget, which always gives me a "fixed" set of data.
Apart from this issue, both solutions do a very precise job.
The possible issues with both these solutions are often grounding issues, which gives somewhat erratic readings rendering a very wavey/spikey RoR curve. When Artisan is set up correctly, the problem is not so bad, but it's very sensitive to the computer and the environment (IMO).

I had an idea in my mind to try out RoastMaster with a Bluetherm connection. The problem with that is that I didn't come to terms with RoastMaster, which have all the bells and whistles you can ask for (and a few more ...), but it's also a bit tricky to get started with. It's also very different from Artisan, which I felt comfortable with. It's a pity that the BlueTherm connection protocol isn't Open Source, so that Artisan could communicate with it. (I do like the idea of having a wireless connection to the computer, as that probably would rid any grounding issues.)

[SusanJoM]

Marko Luther who is the creator of Artisan recommends the Phidget.  That was good enough for me.   

https://artisan-roasterscope.blogspot.de/2013/06/device-selection.html#more

[steveande]

Susan, I appreciate the link, although (unless I missed it) it seems that he recommends a whole bunch of options, not only the Phidget.  What I found most interesting was that he says the Phidget is (was?) the "fastest" of the options.  Can anyone comment on if the Center is "slow" in any practical way, or if there is a lag in it's readout?

It is concerning that the Center may have compatibility/reading (?) issues like edtbjon mentioned.  If the Phidget has a better track record, I may forsake the digital readout and go with that.

The OP says the Center is more expensive but has that changed in the last couple years? From other posts it seems that they are each about a hundred and change.

[SusanJoM]

Susan, I appreciate the link, although (unless I missed it) it seems that he recommends a whole bunch of options, not only the Phidget.

I read it as his recommending the Phidget but making sure to present all of the alternatives that are compatible with Artisan.    However that may be, I doubt there is any difference between a  Phidget and a Center 304 that should matter more than which one appeals to you.   I just like the form factor of the Phidget 

[edtbjon]

Just to clarify things...
The (only) real issue I had with the Center was that I didn't know when I started up my first roast, in which position the Center would send the BT and ET signals respectively.
Scenario: Everything hooked up, Artisan running and Start buttom pressed, so that I get some readings. Both TCs read 20C (room temp). I start preheat cycle. Both readings run in parallell and are very similar in value. It's not until I charge the beans that I can tell the respective TCs apart (as the BT will take that typical quick dive and the ET is more "stable").
No big deal though and not really a problem, just an annoying issue. A press on a button on the Center meter or switching the input values in Artisan fixes the matter. It just looks ugly with switched curves in the first minute of the graph. The thing is that whatever I did to find a "standard" setting, the values seemed to get choosen by random every time I started up the Center meter.

The "speed" issue is due to the Center (et al) meters uses a Serial communication protocol, which is "slower" than the pure USB protocol used by the Phidget. In practice, this difference is not relevant to coffee roasting, where we need readings a few times every minute. (The Center sends multiple readings every second, so no problem there...)

What matters is if you (potential buyer) can find any need for the meter elsewhere or not. If you know that you need a TC meter elsewhere, go for a Center (or whichever compatible meter). The Center is of course also the obvious solution if you have any urge for roasting without computer support.
If not, the Phidget is a very stable and compact solution. Connect, set up and forget.

[CGwynne]

I have both the 4 channel Center and a Phidget. You can see a profile thats from a Center, the user has had to do tremendous smoothing on the RoR so it looks like a childrens play slide, smoothed beyond use in some cases I've seen. TC's have a lot of noise and spikes when going through a Center or similar digital thermometer. On the Phidget , the thermocouple is grounded through the USB connection so there are no spikes. As such you can also clearly see profiles on here that were recorded through Phidgets.


I bought my Phidget because every time I touched the Huky, the temps would spike badly in Artisan when using the Center 304.

The Phidget does present a problem if you want to bridge your TC's to a second data logging or control software solution, since they are now grounded, they will show up as disconnected in the other software package.

[steveande]

Thanks all.  I'm planning to go with the Phidget.  Appreciate the info!