2nd Roast - feedback appreciated

[brew]

So...given this information I know my RoR is at a lot higher rate than optimal.  Should i consider a higher fan speed at say 365?

[rodraguirre]

Please don't do it on my behalf.
I don't need convincing.
I thought you had something wrong and I didn't like the idea that it would go unchallenged.

You may have it all just right, so....carry on.
The subject matter has moved out of range of my interest....

Hey Susan, please don't get me wrong.
I'll initiate a separate post as I believe now I have a good way to demonstrate my point here, and my main intention is just contribute to a better understanding of our tools.

[SusanJoM]

Good Morning.

I've had some needed sleep and understand that you are correct.  Not only did I figure it out myself, but I was in touch with Marko and he validated your points

However, my advice to uses of Artisan is to set a smoothing factor that is within the suggested ranges, which will at least moderate the 'issue'.  (A smoothing factor is intended to make the graph more useful, not to obliterate the actual data points.)

Marko is up to his eyeballs right now and will look into a fix/change.  Here is Marko's comment:

There is not really a bug in Artisan regarding the RoR calculation. It is based on a very famous mathematical library that does the actual calculation. The algorithm used from that library is even mathematically known to be optimal in the sense that there is no other algorithm that performs better (with regard to time shifts and other negative effects) than this one.

R is right that the negative drop of the RoR short before DROP is caused by taking data from after the DROP into account. I will test if one gets better visual results discarding that data (in case a DROP is set, which is essentially only of importance and possible after the roasting process). I am a bit sceptic as there is another effect of any smoothing algorithm that they (have to) perform bad on the edges (so at the begin and end of the data set) as then exactly that "future" data is missing to generate an optimal smoothing result. It get's technical here, so I stop. So I will give that a try and make the change available if it seems to perform better. However, I don't see this as one of the major issue in Artisan. There are other things that I should fix before..

 

[hankua]

For that matter we should be able to put the curser anywhere on the BT/ET/ROR and see the exact numerical representation; or am I missing something???

What about combining the drop and end buttons so both events happen simultaneously?

Under Roast Properties/Data the chart shows all the data points. Sometimes the BT can be increasing with DeltaBT decreasing; I'd believe the BT as most accurate representation of progress.

[rodraguirre]

For that matter we should be able to put the curser anywhere on the BT/ET/ROR and see the exact numerical representation; or am I missing something???

Hank, take a look at this post where I show a visual representation of this issue. Look at the third image and you'll see the "problem"

What about combining the drop and end buttons so both events happen simultaneously?

This would be a very elegant and simple solution.

[hankua]

What's it look like under roast properties/data? I checked one and it seemed accurate up to drop.

I'm still using BT at the end but watch ROR during 1C hoping to get it in an acceptable range (below 10C and declining). The approach to 1C with the solid drum makes a big difference with retained heat/ROR issues.

This is one specific area where I think the meters have an advantage over Phidget. (I've got both setups on different machines)

[SusanJoM]

May I suggest that you guys take this conversation elsewhere and let the OP get the attention his questions deserve?

As a reminder, this was his last post:

So...given this information I know my RoR is at a lot higher rate than optimal.  Should i consider a higher fan speed at say 365?

[brew]

Thanks SusanJoM.  I am going to try again tonight and fiddle with fan speeds a little while increasing heat at drop to 3.5.

[SusanJoM]

You know, Brew, months ago I read a suggestion by a more seasoned than I roaster that I kinda brushed off at the time, but that I now think had a lot of merit. 

He suggested turning OFF deltaBT while you get used to your machine.  He posited (and now I understand why) that it was a distraction which would end up kinda like the tail wagging the dog.

In your case, I would suggest that you change your smoothing to something 10 or lower and/or turn off delta BT completely......The former forever;  the latter just for now.

As for the fan?  I never change my fan speed, so I can't give you any advice there.

[brew]

I dont' have my fan dial incremented yet.  I only know min and max settings and last night guessed at rpm's.  I think I will mark my dial this afternoon and make sure I record where I was when I set the fan speed for particular parts of the roast.  I'm sure the advice is correct and I'm probably obsessing over buttons and lines......

[brew]

Here is a 2nd stab at the same bean.  Still working on controlling temps and how changes affect the Huky.

[brew]

This one could of stood some more development IMO.

[Wayneg1]

This one could of stood some more development IMO.

You may be right, that's a very fast roast.  But it may turn out to taste great.

[SusanJoM]

Looks to me like you need to work on controlling the heat.  It's getting away from you which is why the roast is so short.

What was the gas setting at charge?
And what was your intention when raising the fan there mid-roast?

[hankua]

One thing I had a hard time getting my head wrapped around is development. If one follows Boot Coffee they characterize the development stage between 1C and Drop. And that's a carryover from roasting using the BT readout without datalogging.

You hit your EOD at X time, ramp to 1C, then development stage. This was the paradigm for a long time combined with sensory landmarks.

With datalogging now we can see what's going on from start to finish and the prevailing though is development begins from the turning point to drop; or therabout.

Development can be extended from the turning point to EOD, EOD to 1C, 180C to 1C, or 1C to Drop. SM has several Schooly posts on "stretching out the roast" using their sample roaster.

Point being you can add development say turning point to EOD or the ramp; and still go short from 1C to drop or visa versa. There are endless combinations possible to create a unique profile for your setup.