Huky Forum
HUKY 500 (T, J, SOLID, PERF) => Roasting => Topic started by: folkery on June 24, 2017, 01:33:42 PM
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Any thoughts on these roast graphs?
First roasts charged at 450 first crack came at 730-8 minutes
second roast charged at 470 used more airflow towards the middle of the roast and FC came at 9 minutes.
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It would help to see more info like fc temp/ time and end of FC. Seems underdeveloped to me but that may be what you were aiming for. It's easy to setup the events. You can also right click the graph and add them.
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Ok. I will make the changes. Just realized on my second roast I neglected to reopen the damper... :'(
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Try charging at 350f and getting back to 300f in 5-6 minutes. Then dropping the roast at one of your previous end points; 422f and 429f while trying to keep the RD phase (first crack to drop) 2:30 or less. This would be a more traditional type profile for high grown washed beans.
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Try charging at 350f and getting back to 300f in 5-6 minutes. Then dropping the roast at one of your previous end points; 422f and 429f while trying to keep the RD phase (first crack to drop) 2:30 or less. This would be a more traditional type profile for high grown washed beans.
Thanks!
Do you mean first crack to drop should take 2 minutes 30 seconds?
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So, I've been using GregR roasting guide for all these roasts.
The coffee I'm using is high grown and flavor profile is very basic.
I know there is tons for me to learn. I've read Scott Rao's book as well as Rob Hoos'. however, now that I am putting theory into practice, Iam having to learn BT lines, profiles, RoR and learning how to apply heat (kpa) and airflow at certain stages of the roast.
Iam still uncertain how to achieve proper development of inner bean and flavor. I've been charging at 470, yellowing happens around 4:30 and First crack at 7:30.
The coffee tastes sweet and bodied.
How can I improve?
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So, I've been using GregR roasting guide for all these roasts.
The coffee I'm using is high grown and flavor profile is very basic.
I know there is tons for me to learn. I've read Scott Rao's book as well as Rob Hoos'. however, now that I am putting theory into practice, Iam having to learn BT lines, profiles, RoR and learning how to apply heat (kpa) and airflow at certain stages of the roast.
Iam still uncertain how to achieve proper development of inner bean and flavor. I've been charging at 470, yellowing happens around 4:30 and First crack at 7:30.
The coffee tastes sweet and bodied.
How can I improve?
Cup them all blindly and decide which one you like the most. Then ask yourself why it tastes different. :-)
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Try charging at 350f and getting back to 300f in 5-6 minutes. Then dropping the roast at one of your previous end points; 422f and 429f while trying to keep the RD phase (first crack to drop) 2:30 or less. This would be a more traditional type profile for high grown washed beans.
Yes, anytime between the end of first crack and 2:30 after the onset of first crack.
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Try charging at 350f and getting back to 300f in 5-6 minutes. Then dropping the roast at one of your previous end points; 422f and 429f while trying to keep the RD phase (first crack to drop) 2:30 or less. This would be a more traditional type profile for high grown washed beans.
Yes, anytime between the end of first crack and 2:30 after the onset of first crack.
Much Better results Hank!
I charged at 360F/180C
drying by 5:30
First crack 9:00
RD 2:12 @ 19%
I tasted the coffee and its clean and no baked flavors
However I ran into another problem as I was doing back to back roasts. Between four roast my FC started fine 9 minutes and then gradually took longer each roast, 9:30, 9:50, 10:00.
I believe im losing thermal temperature each roast and need to learn a method to re-warm up the roaster.
After each roast I kept the fan high and heat low, however, did not track my time. For my first roast I always do a 15 minute warmup. What kind of protocol do you take to reach proper thermal temperature between roasts? Do you warm up another 15 mintues then drop your temp to your charge? Or do you drop your temp real low and then warm up again?
Cheers..
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Here are the four roasts...
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pngss...
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However I ran into another problem as I was doing back to back roasts. Between four roast my FC started fine 9 minutes and then gradually took longer each roast, 9:30, 9:50, 10:00.
I believe im losing thermal temperature each roast and need to learn a method to re-warm up the roaster.
After each roast I kept the fan high and heat low, however, did not track my time. For my first roast I always do a 15 minute warmup. What kind of protocol do you take to reach proper thermal temperature between roasts? Do you warm up another 15 mintues then drop your temp to your charge? Or do you drop your temp real low and then warm up again?
Cheers..
I fully agree with Hank on charging lower. You can go even lower than 350F...
My routine before between roasts is to first fire up the heater at 1.0kPa (or less) and have the fan spin at a low speed (or just a tad more). You're good with at least 15 minutes, but more doesn't hurt. While waiting, I start up my computer and Artisan, weigh up some green coffee for my first roast and brew myself a cup. The idea is to slowly get the roaster up to a temp which is slightly above drop temp, say 450F or so. This will heat up the whole system and "mimic" where the roaster is at after a roast.
From there I use the same method, regardless of it being the first or any of the following roast(s), to slowly cool the roaster down to charge temp. I turn the heater off and use the fan to slowly suck out the heat. The fan should be just above the minimal setting. It does take a few minutes, but the important thing is to get the roaster to the same state every time, which is hard if you rush it.
After charging I wait for about 60sec to light up the heater (at full blast). I've found out that the heater may be difficult to ignite at first when cold, but it ignites easily for any subsequent roast.
Using this method, I can drop a roast, turn off the heat and set the fan low, weigh my result and weigh up the greens for the next roast, make notes in Artisan and take out the chaff from the chaff sieve. By then the temp should be approaching my intended charge temp. Having to re-heat the roaster is a pain, so see to that the fan isn't sucking too much heat too fast.
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Just out of curiosity, are you emptying the chaff out of the sieve/fan between roasts? It occurs to me that your chaff buildup between roasts could be making the actual airflow from one roast to the next change with the increased accumulation of chaff....
Tilting at windmills....
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Just out of curiosity, are you emptying the chaff out of the sieve/fan between roasts? It occurs to me that your chaff buildup between roasts could be making the actual airflow from one roast to the next change with the increased accumulation of chaff....
Tilting at windmills....
Your right Susan, I did not remove my chaff between roasts and I suspected that myself. I didn't imagine the amount that was accumilating would make that much a difference.
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I fully agree with Hank on charging lower. You can go even lower than 350F...
Thanks for the feedback Jon!
I will give it a try.
So to my understanding if I charge lower am I allowing more inner bean development occur? (More time under pressure before FC) however if I charge too high 470-500 I'm only roasting the outside of the bean and going to fast; not allowing proper development. When I started learning roasting I was taught to shoot for 7-8 minutes for FC, but now I'm seeing 9 is the pocket to shoot for. I'm guessing it depends on the bean and it's the difference between a slow roast and a fast one. Both are routes I can take when trying a new bean out and should take time to taste them.
Is there a sweet spot when FC starts? and if I charge lower than 350 will that cause my FC to happen later than 9 minutes?
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There's a lot of different opinions on the various approaches available. I guess me and Hank are "the Champions" :) for a low charge temp. But it all depends on what you want to achieve.
Even though the drying phase is the least significant part of the roast, it is still important to get it right. E.g no or little airflow will help in keeping some water in the beans as long as possible, which helps in the coming Maillard processes.
For myself, I usually get to DE (150C300F) at around 6 minutes, which some consider "longish", but again, that doesn't really matter compared to the fact that I in the last minute or so of the drying phase part of the roast can set up the heat for the rest of the roast. Anyhow, I usually get my FCs (start of First Crack) at around 10.00 or so. These are just numbers and it's really all about the result in the cup.
For me personally, this approach have given me good control for the rest of the roast and more importantly, IMO much better coffee. Now, I usually roast rather light roasts, but if I go into FC with a little bit more heat, it's easy to use the same (similar) approach for mid or dark roasts too.
Compare if you will with driving uphill in a car trying to get a smooth stop at the very top. At some points you let go of the accelerator, so that you don't overshoot the top of that hill (i.e the end of the roast).
//Björn
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Everyone has their own "in-between" routine, mine is to pre-weigh greens in 44oz drink cups with peel off labels (on painters tape). I have separate roasted 44oz cups and transfer the labels with the relevant data written in.
For the cool down in between roasts it seems there are two choices; cool down with the air fan or open the drop door w/fan.
Getting to first crack earlier is just a profile change. I think using a high ROR is a better method, instead of charging high then using a lower gas setting. My observations so far, looks like a little more air drives the ROR higher.
A natural Ethiopian would be a good contender to try out with the fast profile, and drop at the end of 1C for a first run.
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E.g no or little airflow will help in keeping some water in the beans as long as possible, which helps in the coming Maillard processes.
For myself, I usually get to DE (150C300F) at around 6 minutes, which some consider "longish", but again, that doesn't really matter compared to the fact that I in the last minute or so of the drying phase part of the roast can set up the heat for the rest of the roast.
I agree. I was watching Mill City roaster videos this morning and they said the same thing, that moisture is driven off of the bean with the use of airflow. Too much air flow can remove vital moisture that the bean needs for proper Maillard development. You will also run into the issue of under developing the inner bean. Im guessing charging low may also add to that preservation of moisture.
What Iam aiming for is a well developed inner bean, preserving the coffees inherit qualities of sweetness and complexity. Learn the practices that prevent baking and roast flavors and achieve a declining Rate of Rise. Most of my coffee will be a Light roast.
You also mentioned that this approach to roasting can also be the method for med and dark roast coffee. I agree, I talked to a roaster in my community that said the same thing.
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E.g no or little airflow will help in keeping some water in the beans as long as possible, which helps in the coming Maillard processes.
For myself, I usually get to DE (150C300F) at around 6 minutes, which some consider "longish", but again, that doesn't really matter compared to the fact that I in the last minute or so of the drying phase part of the roast can set up the heat for the rest of the roast.
Interesting...I have become a creature of habit with DE phase and haven't varied it much lately. Will try lower airflow lower heat to mix it up.