Huky Forum
HUKY 500 (T, J, SOLID, PERF) => Roasting => Topic started by: charlesaf3 on October 09, 2016, 10:51:55 AM
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Hi all, hoping for some opinions on why this ethiopian SO Janbar tastes so mediocre. It has no obvious flaws, but it's not at all what I'm expecting. Have roasted around 5 pounds so far and haven't been pleased with any of it. I'd say it tastes leathery and a bit bitter, no fruit.
I'm looking for fruity and sweet espresso, though I like things at the end of full city, darker than 3rd wave, if that makes sense. So more or less at the end of full city ideally.
Constructive criticism welcomed. My first thoughts are lower the charge and the weight, and up the fan speed.
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I have no help at all to offer on the profile, but I'm curious to know if you have tasted this particular bean roasted in a way and to a degree that you do like?
Sometimes beans just aren't likeable.
That doesn't mean they aren't good, just that you might not like them.
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That thought had occurred to me, but it had good reports on GCBC, so my first guess is I'm doing something wrong... Considering I'm a newbie at the Huky, and my roasting knowledge remains weak, I'm the obvious weak point.
My hope is there is something obviously wrong with the profile
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This is kind of a contradiction; in that you can't roast with that much development and still get something "fruity". I'll go downstairs and find an Ethiopian profile for you to try.
One suggestion is to target your roast somewhere in between 1st and 2nd crack for the ending temperature; and try for a development time 2:00-2:30.
Another way to get around your preference is to blend with the Ethiopian roasted lighter and combine it with a Brazil, Mexican, PNG, etc for the darker roast notes. Most commercial espresso coffee is a blend; there are endless variations one can play around with. As home roasters we can blend smaller amounts for experimentation; hopefully without getting over caffeinated LOL.
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That thought had occurred to me, but it had good reports on GCBC, so my first guess is I'm doing something wrong... Considering I'm a newbie at the Huky, and my roasting knowledge remains weak, I'm the obvious weak point.
My hope is there is something obviously wrong with the profile
I tried for a long time to like that bean.....to no avail. ;D
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Hi all, hoping for some opinions on why this ethiopian SO Janbar tastes so mediocre. It has no obvious flaws, but it's not at all what I'm expecting. Have roasted around 5 pounds so far and haven't been pleased with any of it. I'd say it tastes leathery and a bit bitter, no fruit.
I'm looking for fruity and sweet espresso, though I like things at the end of full city, darker than 3rd wave, if that makes sense. So more or less at the end of full city ideally.
Constructive criticism welcomed. My first thoughts are lower the charge and the weight, and up the fan speed.
I'm having trouble seeing your roast log, especially details like your fan and power numbers. Perhaps you could upload a bit higher resolution. I realize that there is the dreaded 1024 Kb file size limit but you are way under that limit so you should be able to upload a considerably higher resolution. I've also noticed that the text for some people's Artisan roast logs are very small but I don't think that is the problem with yours.
I think that sometimes you can beat your head against the wall trying to get blood from a stone. Maybe this bean is not as good as some people claim. Maybe the green bean has already been in storage too long, etc. I find that for a really good bean, you USUALLY realize the potential immediately even if you may not pull off the perfect roast. It might be a possibility.
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I'm having trouble seeing your roast log, especially details like your fan and power numbers. Perhaps you could upload a bit higher resolution. I
If you Save Graph using the Full Size option, it should be fine.
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Looking at the graph, it kind of looks good. ...kind of... I.e you've got the declining RoR more or less spot on (except for that bump before 1C, which really shouldn't matter that much).
What gives it away though is that the ET curve is very close to the BT for most of the roast. I used to be there and those roasts were kind of mediocre too, regardless of which bean I tried. While my current setup is with a solid drum, I do have experience with a perf. setup too. As Ethiopians in general are high grown dense beans, I guess that they can take and also needs a good hit with the heat. Why not charge a bit lower, getting a lower TP (well below 180F) and hit the gas a bit harder from there. (This approach will create a larger gap, "delta", between the ET and BT and it will get more energy into the beans, which in turn helps all the different Maillard reactions along.)
As others have pointed out it may be a case of an out-dated bean too. If so, there's really nothing to do, but do try some different strategies first.
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I'm surprised this roast wasn't at a rolling second crack when you dropped it. You went 50f past first crack which in my experience would roast away all of the fruit. I would try 25-30f past first crack and adjust my next roast according to the results.
Okay, I guess I really can't read that graph. What IS the drop temp? 434F?
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Why not charge a bit lower, getting a lower TP (well below 180F) and hit the gas a bit harder from there. (This approach will create a larger gap, "delta", between the ET and BT and it will get more energy into the beans, which in turn helps all the different Maillard reactions along.)
Can you explain this a little more? Why do you think you need a bigger gap between BT and ET? Why would this approach get more energy into the beans?
The only way to measure the amount of energy being transferred to the beans is the BT reading. Are you advocating a higher RoR during the maillard phase? I don't think you are getting more energy into the beans but rather a different type of energy.
I started a thread (https://www.hukyforum.com/index.php/topic,1115.0.html) a couple of months ago where this approach is discussed. Even though I use a solid drum at the moment, I've used a perforated drum for some 6 months and I'm pretty (very) confident that the approach with charging low applies to a perf. setup too.
Even though I may misuse some terms and concepts, the end result i.e a better cup is what counts and that is what the OP wants with his beans too.
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I'm pretty (very) confident that the approach with charging low applies to a perf. setup too.
This has become something of a divisive point.
I don't believe it makes any sense with a perforated drum.
There is simply no way that I can get 400 gms of beans to my benchmarks unless I start with a HUKY which is well warmed and charged at 450F-480F.
So, a gentle reminder: try everything. see what works for you.
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Well, it seems like I have to rebuild my machine again. :) I'll do that eventually, once my eyes are in order again etc. I didn't have too much success with the perforated drum, so having another go seems like a good idea.
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Aha....thank you.
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This is kind of a contradiction; in that you can't roast with that much development and still get something "fruity". I'll go downstairs and find an Ethiopian profile for you to try.
One suggestion is to target your roast somewhere in between 1st and 2nd crack for the ending temperature; and try for a development time 2:00-2:30.
Another way to get around your preference is to blend with the Ethiopian roasted lighter and combine it with a Brazil, Mexican, PNG, etc for the darker roast notes. Most commercial espresso coffee is a blend; there are endless variations one can play around with. As home roasters we can blend smaller amounts for experimentation; hopefully without getting over caffeinated LOL.
One Pound DP Ethiopian Profile for Solid Drum Huky500
Time Temp Gas Air
0 150c .50 25v
1:33 82.6c 4 25v
5;55 151c 4 70v
6:34 162c 2 30v
7;10 171c 1 35v
7:58 181c .75 45v
8;46 190c .50 50v
11:02 209c .50 60v
(drop 2:00-2:30 post first crack)
YMMV-Adjust as necessary
The idea behind this profile is to have more development pre-1st crack and less post 1st crack.
Following the theory, one can drop at the end of first crack as well.
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Thanks all.
I should say I can't remember where I dropped that one, but pretty much all drops from 420 on up had the same flavor profile, only with more roast character. Meaning even the lower drops had the "flaw"
I was charging at 420, with 454g. On sunday I tried to charge at 380, with 400g, and am curious to see if that mattered. I'm aiming to let those sit until wednesday
I will try Hankua's profile there as soon as I have the chance, perhaps tomorrow.
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I just roasted a Yirgacheffe Gedeb this past weekend which came out super good. After 4 days of rest, the beans were emitting this really floral aroma very similar to how some of these specialty coffee roasters in LA do it. I've fudged this bean many times in the past and I believe I may have hit the strike zone this last time. I got so excited, I jumped on bodhi leaf's website and bought a few pounds of every ethiopian natural they have.
454g, Charge Temp of 450F
4:35 - 4:35 - 2:00
Drop temp of 418F
I don't usually save roast profiles but I remember exactly what I did, sorry for the rough data below.
Time / Milestone Power Fan
0 0 kPa 30v
1:30 5 kPa 40v
3 kPa 50v
2.5 kPa 50v
Rolling 1C 2.0 kPa 60v
Around (400F)
1C end 1.5 kPa 60v
Drop at 418F.
Ive tried this roast as espresso and drip and both are really good. I can definitely taste some sort of tropical fruit (mango comes to mind) or stonefruit in the cup. Just like what edtbjon suggested, I am planning to charge lower next time around (425F) with a 5ish - 4:15ish - 2ish roast. I am also planning for max air (60V) before rolling 1C.
Let me know what you guys think of this profile.
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So I got a chance to roast today. My initial reaction is that lower charge temp, and bean mass seem to have helped - I'm doing 380F/400g.
I might not like this bean, as Susan mentioned. Still, the thing that is bothering me is "leatheriness" or tannic background. I wonder if I'm taking too long in the drying phase? That said, it's a super-dense bean...