Huky Forum
OTHER STUFF => Beans => Topic started by: Turboner on April 16, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
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Hello all huky-ntrepreneurs!
Just wanted to know how your roasting business is coming along. Waiting for the permits and licenses took a little bit of wind out of my sails, but now that I have them and finished the food handler class, I am ready to roast-n-roll.
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I considered a roasting business but thought it might not be practical with the Huky. Roasting 1lb at time would limit the size of your customer base wouldn't it? If you're roasting out of your home are permits and licenses required?
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You are correct about the Huky regarding commercial roasting, I'm not sure how others do it, but for me this is just something on the side (selling to friends, family and neighbors). When it comes to permits and licenses to sell and prepare dry goods from home in CA, you will need a Cottage Food Operators permit (A or B) and a Business Tax Registration (this is what they call a Business License in LA). The only thing about the CFO permit is that you have a gross annual sales limit of $50,000 (in California at least). I am able to roast about 3 lbs/hr, so doing the math, for someone who really wants to get to that 50K you will have to roast about 7-9 lbs of coffee (about 2-3 hrs) everyday of the year using a HUKY at around $15 per 12 oz or 16 oz bag.
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By the way, the CFO permit is using your existing home kitchen only. If you plan to roast from your garage, the requirements are completely different.
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Good information. I think I'll look into it. Many thanks.
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By the way, the CFO permit is using your existing home kitchen only. If you plan to roast from your garage, the requirements are completely different.
How do you even find out what the rules and regs are? I wouldn't know where to start.
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I read this but it doesn't talk about using your garage.
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/pages/fdbcottagefood.aspx (http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/pages/fdbcottagefood.aspx)
I've searched but can't find anything about roasting in an attached garage in California.
I'd be looking at a class A permit
@brew Google "tennessee cottage food law". I see some stuff there but don't know if it talks about garages.
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Ah..so the laws in Tenn are pretty lax if you do direct sales (farmers market, flea market) for dry coffee but not brewed coffee. You can't do mail sales unless you have a domestic kitchen permit. http://share.tn.gov/sos/rules/0080/0080-04/0080-04-11.pdf
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For garage roasting, you will need to install a certified commercial kitchen. This means installing a 3 compartment sink, running hot water, and annual inspections. Check with your Department of Health what they require for garage roasting.
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For garage roasting, you will need to install a certified commercial kitchen. This means installing a 3 compartment sink, running hot water, and annual inspections. Check with your Department of Health what they require for garage roasting.
Wow, that seems like overkill. Who uses water in their roasting? I'll contact the local folks.
Thanks!
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I believe the water is for equipment/utensil cleaning and hand washing, which they require separate sinks for each.
Let me know what they tell you, the requirements differ from city to city. Coffee is somewhat in that gray area where it isn't exactly a Food, but since it's a consumable, some cities (larger ones) err on the side of caution and lump it along with cooked and baked goods.
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Similar to lots of folks here, I've been looking into a really small scale business - mostly family/friends. But, I'd like to have a website and sell online some as well. So I've been looking into getting all the correct certifications and inspections. Here's what I've found for the State of North Carolina:
- Roasting and selling dry coffee from home or on the web is included in NCDA's home processing program, which requires compliance with GMP.
-The main things you need to comply with if roasting is done in a house (not shed or garage etc.) are: No pets in the home ever, running hot and cold water, clean roasting area, clean bathroom with hand towels, all roasting materials and equipment separated from non business things (was told this could be as simple as a separate closet or fridge shelf), city water or well water tested for coliforms within 1 year.
-If all that is in place, you have to complete an application to have an inspector come out to your home. The application is not very difficult.
I was at the point of submitting the application when I learned you also need your specific town to allow roasting from home, so I started looking into that too. The town's requirements are less clear, and at this point I am unsure if they will allow it. They require an application as well, but have said they will only allow it if "No fumes escape the home". I live in "Suburbia" so I'm sure this is to avoid annoying neighbors, but it is a bit frustrating as roasting absolutely necessitates "fumes" escaping, even if those fumes are just a small amount of coffee scented smoke.
I think the take away is that it is a challenge to fully comply with all regulations, and it will be different for every country/State/County/Town/HOA. I hope that is helpful to someone :)
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I believe the water is for equipment/utensil cleaning and hand washing, which they require separate sinks for each.
Let me know what they tell you, the requirements differ from city to city. Coffee is somewhat in that gray area where it isn't exactly a Food, but since it's a consumable, some cities (larger ones) err on the side of caution and lump it along with cooked and baked goods.
I got a reply from the California Dept. of Public Health. They said, "Cottage Food Operations are required to process food in the home kitchen of their primary residence, therefore, a garage would not a permissible location to make/roast the coffee as a CFO.
To obtain a CFO permit you would need to contact your local county Environmental Health Services agency."
I guess it's a nonstarter.
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There are other permits that will allow you to roast in your garage without any sales limit. The CFO permit is only for persons that want to have a small scale business w/o getting into other regulatory requirements by the Dep of Public Health, Dep of Labor, AQMD, etc.
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I just sent a follow up question to the reply from Dept of Public Health asking if it's possible to garage roast with a permit from another govmt agency outside CFO.
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I started a home roasting business a year ago here in SE Alaska. The permitting and regulations are incredibly strait forward here but they do change from state to state. For Alaska, the rules state that the sales are to be direct to the customer (no wholesale) and are limited to $25,000 a year. I started with the Huky because it was the most affordable fully manual drum roaster I could find and I wanted to learn how to roast and test my local market.
The response has been great and there have been times that I have been stretched quite thin between roasting coffee and working my 40+ hour regular job. I decided to not do any kind of advertising early on because I was afraid of not being able to keep up with demand and I was getting more and more customers through word of mouth and the exposure from working small farmer's markets throughout the summer. I find that I can consistently yield 2.5lbs an hour of roasted beans which isn't very much. So I am now working on getting a larger machine, still small, that would yield a bit over ten pounds an hour and finding a commercial kitchen space to do that. Going commercial, even on that small scale, is a huge leap forward in terms of the permits and regulations needed. I'm not drowning but I am definitely swimming.
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I'm not planning to venture down the self-owned roasting business path anytime soon, but almost all professional roasters I've talked to have mentioned to me, if seriously considering starting a roasting business, you should attempt to purchase at least a 10kg roaster from the beginning (some have said 5kg being the absolute bare minimum, but not recommended).
The above makes it so you only need to roast once to a few times a week (instead of every day), and those free days can then be used to promote your business, interact with customers, work on billing and paperwork, etc...
However (on the flip side of the above), if you start on the Huky, the Huky could still become a good sample roaster for down the road (if local regulations allow) while providing some very good experience to improve your skills.
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I'd like to get a definitive explanation of the permit process for roasting in my attached garage in Santa Clara County, California. I've written the Public Health Dept but so far the response has been pretty vague.
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Check county of Santa Clara Department of Env. Health, Consumer Protection Division.
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Check county of Santa Clara Department of Env. Health, Consumer Protection Division.
Great! I can't seem to find anything about my situation so I think I'll stop in next week but this looks like the place to start.
Many thanks.
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And for a dose of reality from Alan Frew on HB today
a successful coffee roasting business depends more on business, logistics and cupping skills than rote repetition of blend recipes and roasting profiles. Blends are transient, depending on annual crop results. Roasting profiles vary with each new crop. In 30 years in the coffee industry I've only personally known 2 people who started out burning beans and graduated into successful, long term coffee business owners. I've known many more who entered from outside the industry then succeeded because they had excellent prior business skills. Roasting coffee isn't that difficult, running a profitable coffee business is.
the bold is my editorial emphasis....:-))))